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	<title>Comments on: Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too</title>
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	<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/</link>
	<description>A conversation.</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15539</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 11:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15539</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard less about universities&#039; dealings with the BJTC, so can&#039;t comment so much on how much of their dealings are marketing-related. (We have a PGDip Broadcast Journalism which is BJTC accredited, but I have nothing to do with that).

I did have discussions with the BJTC about accreditation of the MA Online Journalism, but it was clear to both parties that the couurse, being aimed at those who already had media experience, really wasn&#039;t appropriate - there&#039;s little point spending valuable teaching time on things that your students have been doing for years in the professional world when you can instead be building on top of that. At some point I may look at a second MA which is aimed at entry level (those without media experience), and accredited accordingly, and in that case I would look initially to the BJTC whose documentation indicates more flexibility and a more progressive online element (that said, I&#039;m hoping the online element will be updated by then). But I wouldn&#039;t write off the NCTJ or PTC either - it may come down to who has updated their requirements most recently. The key point in all of this is that I don&#039;t believe we should delegate the process of finding out what the industry wants from MA graduates to someone else - we should be out there finding out for ourselves. This is what I did with the MA and will do for future MAs, without any preconception of who the employers are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard less about universities&#8217; dealings with the BJTC, so can&#8217;t comment so much on how much of their dealings are marketing-related. (We have a PGDip Broadcast Journalism which is BJTC accredited, but I have nothing to do with that).</p>
<p>I did have discussions with the BJTC about accreditation of the MA Online Journalism, but it was clear to both parties that the couurse, being aimed at those who already had media experience, really wasn&#8217;t appropriate &#8211; there&#8217;s little point spending valuable teaching time on things that your students have been doing for years in the professional world when you can instead be building on top of that. At some point I may look at a second MA which is aimed at entry level (those without media experience), and accredited accordingly, and in that case I would look initially to the BJTC whose documentation indicates more flexibility and a more progressive online element (that said, I&#8217;m hoping the online element will be updated by then). But I wouldn&#8217;t write off the NCTJ or PTC either &#8211; it may come down to who has updated their requirements most recently. The key point in all of this is that I don&#8217;t believe we should delegate the process of finding out what the industry wants from MA graduates to someone else &#8211; we should be out there finding out for ourselves. This is what I did with the MA and will do for future MAs, without any preconception of who the employers are.</p>
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		<title>By: Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too &#8211; Online Journalism Blog &#124; Einar Thorsen</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15538</link>
		<dc:creator>Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too &#8211; Online Journalism Blog &#124; Einar Thorsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 10:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15538</guid>
		<description>[...] External link [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] External link [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Joel Flynn</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15537</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Flynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 09:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15537</guid>
		<description>I find it curious that there&#039;s been no mention of the BJTC in either this post, the article it relates to, or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article7119993.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; this one &lt;/a&gt;.

The latter in particular was shocking given the poor quality of the sub-editing.

The BJTC accreditation was a draw for me to do the MA Multi-Media Journalism course at Bournemouth. From the sounds of it Paul that might be the course the student you mentioned went to do. I was attracted by the MA aspect of it as well, compared to the diploma offered by courses like Broadcast Journalism at Cardiff and City.

Bloggers and columnists alike often talk about journalism as if it only relates to print, which is a fallacy.

Would you say that the BJTC, whilst obviously a different body to the NCTJ, similarly constricts teaching and offers little other than marketing in return?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it curious that there&#8217;s been no mention of the BJTC in either this post, the article it relates to, or <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article7119993.ece" rel="nofollow" onclick="urchinTracker('/outgoing/www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article7119993.ece?referer=');"> this one </a>.</p>
<p>The latter in particular was shocking given the poor quality of the sub-editing.</p>
<p>The BJTC accreditation was a draw for me to do the MA Multi-Media Journalism course at Bournemouth. From the sounds of it Paul that might be the course the student you mentioned went to do. I was attracted by the MA aspect of it as well, compared to the diploma offered by courses like Broadcast Journalism at Cardiff and City.</p>
<p>Bloggers and columnists alike often talk about journalism as if it only relates to print, which is a fallacy.</p>
<p>Would you say that the BJTC, whilst obviously a different body to the NCTJ, similarly constricts teaching and offers little other than marketing in return?</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Heseltine</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15536</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Heseltine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 15:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15536</guid>
		<description>The huge range of media courses across the country does pose a problem for employers who are trying to work out which are any good. For some people in regional newspapers the solution is to assume that the NCTJ –accredited ones must be OK. I went through the NCTJ system almost 30 years ago so when I became a news editor and I used to make the same assumption. Seven years ago I started teaching on an NCTJ accredited university course and found to my astonishment that while newspaper production had transformed during my 25 years in the industry NCTJ requirements hadn’t changed a bit. There have been a few updates since then and it’s fair to say that core journalistic skills of writing and news gathering don’t change.  But at BCU we want our journalism course to stretch students and provide them with the knowledge, the creativity and the intellectual capacity to use those core skills in an industry that actually exists now and in the future.  That’s why we made the decision to “shun” the limitations of the NCTJ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The huge range of media courses across the country does pose a problem for employers who are trying to work out which are any good. For some people in regional newspapers the solution is to assume that the NCTJ –accredited ones must be OK. I went through the NCTJ system almost 30 years ago so when I became a news editor and I used to make the same assumption. Seven years ago I started teaching on an NCTJ accredited university course and found to my astonishment that while newspaper production had transformed during my 25 years in the industry NCTJ requirements hadn’t changed a bit. There have been a few updates since then and it’s fair to say that core journalistic skills of writing and news gathering don’t change.  But at BCU we want our journalism course to stretch students and provide them with the knowledge, the creativity and the intellectual capacity to use those core skills in an industry that actually exists now and in the future.  That’s why we made the decision to “shun” the limitations of the NCTJ.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2010-05-17 &#171; Onlinejournalismtest&#039;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15535</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2010-05-17 &#171; Onlinejournalismtest&#039;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 14:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15535</guid>
		<description>[...] Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too &#124; Online Journalism Blog Here we go&#8230; Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too http://bit.ly/c0JaBw (tags: via:packrati.us) [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too | Online Journalism Blog Here we go&#8230; Dear Peter Preston: universities shun the NCTJ too <a href="http://bit.ly/c0JaBw" rel="nofollow" onclick="urchinTracker('/outgoing/bit.ly/c0JaBw?referer=');">http://bit.ly/c0JaBw</a> (tags: via:packrati.us) [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15534</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 12:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15534</guid>
		<description>Thanks - that&#039;s interesting - one of my former students said she found the NCTJ a breeze after doing the degree, and felt she was just going through the motions. I&#039;m sure the rigour of both degrees and NCTJ courses varies. As an aside, her experience in local newspapers was so frustrating that she left to do a journalism MA with the aim of moving into broadcast multimedia journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks &#8211; that&#8217;s interesting &#8211; one of my former students said she found the NCTJ a breeze after doing the degree, and felt she was just going through the motions. I&#8217;m sure the rigour of both degrees and NCTJ courses varies. As an aside, her experience in local newspapers was so frustrating that she left to do a journalism MA with the aim of moving into broadcast multimedia journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookish Brunette</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/05/17/dear-peter-preston-universities-shun-the-nctj-too/#comment-15533</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookish Brunette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 12:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=8516#comment-15533</guid>
		<description>This debate has reminded me of some advice given to me by a journalist during my first newsroom work placement when I was 16. I was told by an experienced and respected print journalist to &#039;study anything but journalism or media at university&#039;. 
I ignored their advice. But I&#039;m still not sure if that was a wise move. 
I achieved my NCTJ pre-lim in Newspaper Journalism after my BA and found that it was far more rigourous, in-depth and intense than any element of my degree programme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This debate has reminded me of some advice given to me by a journalist during my first newsroom work placement when I was 16. I was told by an experienced and respected print journalist to &#8216;study anything but journalism or media at university&#8217;.<br />
I ignored their advice. But I&#8217;m still not sure if that was a wise move.<br />
I achieved my NCTJ pre-lim in Newspaper Journalism after my BA and found that it was far more rigourous, in-depth and intense than any element of my degree programme.</p>
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