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	<title>Comments on: Time to talk about legal</title>
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	<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/</link>
	<description>A conversation.</description>
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		<title>By: IBB Solicitors</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16715</link>
		<dc:creator>IBB Solicitors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16715</guid>
		<description>Blogging is only going to continue and there are a lot of people writing a lot of content, perhaps without knowing exactly what they are getting involved with. A blogging advice bureau would benefit a lot people, and the legal industry generally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blogging is only going to continue and there are a lot of people writing a lot of content, perhaps without knowing exactly what they are getting involved with. A blogging advice bureau would benefit a lot people, and the legal industry generally.</p>
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		<title>By: David Banks</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16714</link>
		<dc:creator>David Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 07:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16714</guid>
		<description>Well Jim, just to cite one example. What about Jeffrey Archer, Monic Coghlan and the Daily Star?

Monica, a prostitute, and the Star were telling the truth, but a High Court jury did not believe them and awarded Archer £500k damages (the judge told the jury to reflect in damages the Star&#039;s insistence on claiming truth)

As we now know, Archer lied and got another witness to lie for him, hence his later conviction for perverting the course of justice.

The Star got its money back, but it took a long time for the truth to come out, and had one of Archer&#039;s alibi witnesses not gone to the police it may never have come out at all.

Truth is an absolute defence, but in proving it you have to bear in mind that a libel court may not look as kindly on your witnesses as you would like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Jim, just to cite one example. What about Jeffrey Archer, Monic Coghlan and the Daily Star?</p>
<p>Monica, a prostitute, and the Star were telling the truth, but a High Court jury did not believe them and awarded Archer £500k damages (the judge told the jury to reflect in damages the Star&#8217;s insistence on claiming truth)</p>
<p>As we now know, Archer lied and got another witness to lie for him, hence his later conviction for perverting the course of justice.</p>
<p>The Star got its money back, but it took a long time for the truth to come out, and had one of Archer&#8217;s alibi witnesses not gone to the police it may never have come out at all.</p>
<p>Truth is an absolute defence, but in proving it you have to bear in mind that a libel court may not look as kindly on your witnesses as you would like.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16713</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 18:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16713</guid>
		<description>I still don&#039;t understand what&#039;s so difficult about simply not publishing something unless you can prove it to be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t understand what&#8217;s so difficult about simply not publishing something unless you can prove it to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16712</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16712</guid>
		<description>Thanks David - you&#039;re right of course. The most depressing experiences I&#039;ve had in media have been sessions with lawyers on what I can&#039;t do. More positively, I hope a support group will give bloggers more confidence in standing up to (and possibly funding) legal action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David &#8211; you&#8217;re right of course. The most depressing experiences I&#8217;ve had in media have been sessions with lawyers on what I can&#8217;t do. More positively, I hope a support group will give bloggers more confidence in standing up to (and possibly funding) legal action.</p>
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		<title>By: David Banks</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16711</link>
		<dc:creator>David Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 11:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16711</guid>
		<description>One brief point.

I&#039;m all for greater legal knowledge, well I would be wouldn&#039;t I?

But sad to say that does not forestall legal action. If the law were as clear cut as some here are suggesting, then an awful lot of libel lawyers would be out of business.

Many publishers have learnt to their cost that the truth can be expensive if you cannot prove it to the satisfaction of the High Court. Libel claimants know this and the deck is so stacked in their favour, and the danger of loss so expensive, that the mere threat of an action prevents publication. That&#039;s the chilling effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One brief point.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for greater legal knowledge, well I would be wouldn&#8217;t I?</p>
<p>But sad to say that does not forestall legal action. If the law were as clear cut as some here are suggesting, then an awful lot of libel lawyers would be out of business.</p>
<p>Many publishers have learnt to their cost that the truth can be expensive if you cannot prove it to the satisfaction of the High Court. Libel claimants know this and the deck is so stacked in their favour, and the danger of loss so expensive, that the mere threat of an action prevents publication. That&#8217;s the chilling effect.</p>
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		<title>By: A new &#8216;working group&#8217; about legal issues for online publishers &#124; media law &#38; ethics</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16710</link>
		<dc:creator>A new &#8216;working group&#8217; about legal issues for online publishers &#124; media law &#38; ethics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 09:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16710</guid>
		<description>[...] the end of September, I wrote a piece for the Online Journalism Blog arguing it was time for small online publishers to talk about [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the end of September, I wrote a piece for the Online Journalism Blog arguing it was time for small online publishers to talk about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JTownend</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16709</link>
		<dc:creator>JTownend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 10:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16709</guid>
		<description>That wasn&#039;t the argument here. I&#039;m simply saying let&#039;s try and clarify the grey areas (which you say aren&#039;t a problem) for writers using a medium which is relatively new in the context of media law . I agree with you - online publishers should know the law. Whether, as Adam said, many are aware of the legislation is also something to consider. This isn&#039;t just about &#039;citizen journalists&#039;, I&#039;m thinking about people who set up Facebook groups; who use Twitter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That wasn&#8217;t the argument here. I&#8217;m simply saying let&#8217;s try and clarify the grey areas (which you say aren&#8217;t a problem) for writers using a medium which is relatively new in the context of media law . I agree with you &#8211; online publishers should know the law. Whether, as Adam said, many are aware of the legislation is also something to consider. This isn&#8217;t just about &#8216;citizen journalists&#8217;, I&#8217;m thinking about people who set up Facebook groups; who use Twitter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16708</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 08:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16708</guid>
		<description>Why should it be any different for online writers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why should it be any different for online writers?</p>
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		<title>By: JTownend</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16707</link>
		<dc:creator>JTownend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 08:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16707</guid>
		<description>Hi all, 

Great to see discussion on here - it was posted just as I went away so haven&#039;t had a chance to comment till now. A couple of things to add:

Jim, I don&#039;t agree on the whole, but welcome your comments and criticism, thank you. If it was as simple as knowing the law then why do big media organisations with staff trained in media law employ lawyers to check their material? Why do we even need judges to make decisions if there&#039;s a clear right and wrong? Grey areas are not just a result of new technology (for example: how long to allow for a right of reply / are you liable for online comments written by external contributors?) but also because people interpret the law differently. The more research and reading I do around this subject, the more confusing I find the position for online writers. Lawyers I have talked to agree there are uncertain areas for bloggers. The point of this support group would be to identify problem areas and to keep on top of developments in case law etc. I would have thought that is a sensible addition to other media law training and McNae&#039;s and no-one has to join in if they think it&#039;s a waste of time. 

Paul, thanks for setting up the LinkedIn group.

Matt, thanks for emphasising that and the wider issues at play. I used the Osler case to show how an independent blogger can get drawn into a legal row very easily - to get to the point where a judge rules in the defendant&#039;s favour or strikes the case out can take years. The Kaschke cases raised especially interesting points about comment moderation. English media law is not like an automated system and with the development of online technology there are many new factors to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, </p>
<p>Great to see discussion on here &#8211; it was posted just as I went away so haven&#8217;t had a chance to comment till now. A couple of things to add:</p>
<p>Jim, I don&#8217;t agree on the whole, but welcome your comments and criticism, thank you. If it was as simple as knowing the law then why do big media organisations with staff trained in media law employ lawyers to check their material? Why do we even need judges to make decisions if there&#8217;s a clear right and wrong? Grey areas are not just a result of new technology (for example: how long to allow for a right of reply / are you liable for online comments written by external contributors?) but also because people interpret the law differently. The more research and reading I do around this subject, the more confusing I find the position for online writers. Lawyers I have talked to agree there are uncertain areas for bloggers. The point of this support group would be to identify problem areas and to keep on top of developments in case law etc. I would have thought that is a sensible addition to other media law training and McNae&#8217;s and no-one has to join in if they think it&#8217;s a waste of time. </p>
<p>Paul, thanks for setting up the LinkedIn group.</p>
<p>Matt, thanks for emphasising that and the wider issues at play. I used the Osler case to show how an independent blogger can get drawn into a legal row very easily &#8211; to get to the point where a judge rules in the defendant&#8217;s favour or strikes the case out can take years. The Kaschke cases raised especially interesting points about comment moderation. English media law is not like an automated system and with the development of online technology there are many new factors to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Wardman</title>
		<link>http://onlinejournalismblog.com/2010/09/29/time-to-talk-about-legal/#comment-16706</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Wardman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 11:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onlinejournalismblog.com/?p=10158#comment-16706</guid>
		<description>Judith

An important point: Dave Osler is a professional freelance journalist with several decades of experience - though he&#039;s now working in something around Shipping (I think). 

He&#039;s also a blogging veteran who&#039;s been involved with multiple campaigns on exactly this issue - like many of the rest of political bloggers.

So, there&#039;s quite a bit of experience/knowledge behind his standing his ground.

Good to see you on the OJB.

Rgds</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judith</p>
<p>An important point: Dave Osler is a professional freelance journalist with several decades of experience &#8211; though he&#8217;s now working in something around Shipping (I think). </p>
<p>He&#8217;s also a blogging veteran who&#8217;s been involved with multiple campaigns on exactly this issue &#8211; like many of the rest of political bloggers.</p>
<p>So, there&#8217;s quite a bit of experience/knowledge behind his standing his ground.</p>
<p>Good to see you on the OJB.</p>
<p>Rgds</p>
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